Curse

tehshadowninjar · Jan 29, 2008, 08:42 PM // 20:42

P.S. Please read!!!!! This is a PvP only suggestion thread, so if you're not into PvP much, please don't waste your time. Thankies

1. Paragons - Their energy regeneration. Okay, they have 2 pips, right? Well, alot of their attacks are energy consuming to say the least. Well, the chants and whatnot. The only other profession in GW who has the same energy regeneration would be the warrior, and that doesn't matter because the warrior is more of a frontliner, one who does moderate damage and takes most of the damage in a fight, thus, needing adrenaline more than anything for its attacks. The Paragon, however, is a mid-liner. They usually can't take much damage, due to their somewhat low attack power, and some people like using restorative and supportive Paragons, usually through the use of 1-3 attacks, usually ones that cause conditions or disable someone from doing something for a short while. Most of the chants, shouts, and echos I see are usually 10s duration. Now, how in the world could you get enough energy to continiously spam these when your team is under constant pressure? At least give them a skill for whenever any of your team mates are hurt, you receive a very small portion of energy. Either do this or give them 3 or 4 energy pips. The ranger gets 3 because they have an attribute called Expertise which can allow them to cut down on the energy consumption by over 60%. And anything they do costs energy, usually. Every other class has 4 energy (excluding warrior, as stated previously). So I would like to see a change in either the energy pips, or a form of a skill.

2. Hero Battles - Okay, I think it's a bit unfair to people who can't fair fairly good without using all of their heroes with the shrines. Since some people are good tacticians, they can set up their build JUST right to cope with everything without using all of their heroes. There's also the option at the start of the battle to take the nearest shrine to you and then take another and mabye another (depending on the quantity of the shrines in said map), if the opponent is busy taking the others. So you're stuck with those shrines. But what happens if you get stuck with a very good player in an unrated battle (I think unrated battles should be for the newbies who aren't very good against many people, hence, why they do not want a loss in their rank) and you have a good tactician capping every other shrine while you're putting forth all of your effort to hold down the current and only shrine you have. Eventually, the opponent gets the upper hand, eleminates your heroes for points (goal is 20, of course), and then gain more points with the mass number of the shrines, and if they're really good, take the only shrine you had, thus having alot of points pouring in from your deaths and the morale (shrines increase it). So, what I am suggesting is that you can have an open arena with no shrines so everyone has a fair advantage. Since everyone's AI is the same (heroes, not actual players), the playing field would be completely fair, since you can choose what build to use, how to use it, and control your team mates.

3. Random Arenas - Okay, I know ALOT of people will flame me or call me derogatory terms, just skip this part if you will. Anyways, to the point. It really makes me mad when a team gets 2 monks, and 2 average players. Or 3 monks and a very good player. Or just a monk and 3 less than average players. The only time that there are ever 85% of teams with at least one monk are during events with special prizes (like the '08 RA noobfest last weekend), when everyone took the real gamer out of them and put in their best effort. Which is why it confuses me why people do not do this normally. Anyways, to my initial suggestion. I would like ANet to put up a system to where each team goes against each other by profession.

4. Heroes' Ascent - Alot of people use all kinds of "IWAY" strategies, and personally, I cannot stand the elitest attitude because I cannot run a specific build THAT way. So what I'm wondering is adding some kind of system for people who ran "randomway". And I'm assuming, from the 5 times I've ran it, is just a group of 8 people with their limited knowledge of throwing a group together in 5 minutes and doing HA. I would like to see this because I am tired of never winning, and I can never get into any other group without having a very high rank (usually r5 or higher) or showing my build beforehand and telling them my playtime experience. I, for one, would like to just once be able to complete HA using randomway.

Thank you for your time, and thanks for reading ^-^

StormDragonZ · Jan 29, 2008, 08:48 PM // 20:48

My response for the Hero Battles paragraph:

If you can't force yourself to do what it takes to win, then you shouldn't be playing in the first place. Casual doesn't apply for Hero Battles.

Blu · Jan 29, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

1. Yes, lets make Paragons even godlier/imba and kill the game even more...

2. Sure, don't really care about HB.

3. No. Its Random Arenas, key word Random. Anyway, if you really wanted faction/glad points, just do TA, HA or real PvP (GvG). Really, what do you expect from random 4v4 matches with people testing builds, noobs, grievers, etc.?

4. Not really sure what you're suggesting. But if you really wanted a random group, I'm sure you could get some guildies, organize a group on forums or just make a PuG...

tehshadowninjar · Jan 29, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Meh, figures no one would even try to say anything nice >.> And paras are barely good. The only thing I have been able to do so far is daze casters somewhat fairly, but that's it. To the people who haven't said anything nice, just go away until you can -_-

Alicendre · Jan 29, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

About Paragons : did you see their primary attribute ? When all team members are in your aggro circle, you get most or even more than the cost of a chant or shout.
Of course it doesn't trigger with attack skills, but a lot of them use adrenaline...

About RA : well, it's like its name implies, random. You get bad teams with good players, good teams which get ruined by a Wammo, and stuff like that. It happens, and removing it is just like making a whole new arena.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Meh, figures no one would even try to say anything nice >.> And paras are barely good. The only thing I have been able to do so far is daze casters somewhat fairly, but that's it.

You're playing them badly. Sorry to be mean, but that's truth.
In PvE, Paras are godly.
In PvP, they are really good.

pygar · Jan 29, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Meh, figures no one would even try to say anything nice >.> And paras are barely good. The only thing I have been able to do so far is daze casters somewhat fairly, but that's it. To the people who haven't said anything nice, just go away until you can -_-

Paragons are silly good, they get energy back from shouts and chants...same said shouts and chants turbocharge your allies offense and defense- My P-gon makes everybody around them block 50% of attacks, get 66% chance for critical hit, light the enemy on fire for 5 seconds with any attack, or make them weak for like 10-15 seconds off of attack skills- and is usually the last person in my group to run down on power.....plus P-gons themselves have very good armor, second only to warriors. Paragons are silly good, just retaradiculously good- you need to take a long serious second look at them and see what you are missing. (or read all the threads here talking about how bad they need to be nerfed)

Cant say it any nicer than that sorry, can't believe you don't think paragons are good..... it's like thinking breathing is over-rated (really they may be the best class in the game, certainly one of the most frequently complained about because of how much power they have)

quickmonty · Jan 29, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

Meh, figures no one would even try to say anything nice >.> And paras are barely good. The only thing I have been able to do so far is daze casters somewhat fairly, but that's it. To the people who haven't said anything nice, just go away until you can -_-

Quote:

Thank you for your time, and thanks for reading

That was nice.

tehshadowninjar · Jan 29, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

I must not see their power then. But you have 4 people in your team, you get 4 out of 10 energy of alot of the shouts and chants you use, and since you usually have to spam them, you run down on energy fast, while many other classes have ways of energy regen, the only skill I've seen so far is Song of Power, which gives +4 energy regen for 10 seconds, which doesn't help hardly if you have to constantly use a skill.

credit · Jan 29, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

I must not see their power then.

You're doing them wrong.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 29, 2008, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

And paras are barely good.

Wait, what?

If paras are 'barely good', every other single class in GW is total fail by comparison. Excepting monk and warrior, which are almost total fail.

pygar · Jan 29, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Go For the Eyes, costs adrenaline.....is the one that makes allies next attack have xx% chance to crit, you'l build adrenaline by making attacks, then get 4 energy for free.(plus get amazing damage out of half the people in your group doing a critical hit all at once)

Anthem of Flame, makes everybody's next attack light ppl on fire for 3-5 seconds, burning does 14 damage per second...bad guys go poof fast with this shout up, so it'l reduce your need to spam.

Anthem of Weariness, makes allies next attack skill also apply weakness for like 10 seconds......weakness drops enemy damage to almost meaningless levels.

Defensive Anthem, is one I like, but others pass on- it gives 50% block to everybody and is not removable like monk enchants are- the downside is DA cancels if allies use attack skills....small downside for me, cuz I use a lot of other "blockway" stuff like Aegis and Wards to back this ability up.

These skills will make the other guys in your group around the P-gon so gnarly, your "spam" vs. energy management ratio should get way better even if you are only getting 4 energy back from leadership. There are plenty of other good P-gon skills that do about the same thing. If nothing else,while your P-gon is burning up tons of power with these chants, chances are they are conserving power on your other allies by way of making it so easy for them to deal and avoid damage. Also, Heroes, Henchies, Pets, Minions and maybe even mini pets all count as allies, this can be exploited to get you more benefit from leadership in the early parts of the game where you can only have a party of 4 (some chants affect party members, not allies so be careful with that)

I dont play a Paragon, but ever since the game gave me one as a Hero, I have all but been on cruise control questing thru the rest of the game...in fact it took that super hard one in the RoT (where you have to fight Shiro and the Lich and all kinds of other crap) to finally stop me and make me change my group build again.(Totally off topic, but could we make that mission a little more ridiculously difficult- maybe make it a solo mission or something, or have like constant 10 pips of degen on your bar *sarcasm*)

Alex the Great · Jan 29, 2008, 10:19 PM // 22:19

1. leadership
2. if you suck don't play
3. random, not same
4. dear God, you are mad beacuse YOU can't play IWAY!!!!!

/fail

Skyy High · Jan 29, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehshadowninjar

1. Paragons - Their energy regeneration. Okay, they have 2 pips, right? Well, alot of their attacks are energy consuming to say the least. Well, the chants and whatnot. The only other profession in GW who has the same energy regeneration would be the warrior, and that doesn't matter because the warrior is more of a frontliner, one who does moderate damage and takes most of the damage in a fight, thus, needing adrenaline more than anything for its attacks. The Paragon, however, is a mid-liner. They usually can't take much damage, due to their somewhat low attack power, and some people like using restorative and supportive Paragons, usually through the use of 1-3 attacks, usually ones that cause conditions or disable someone from doing something for a short while. Most of the chants, shouts, and echos I see are usually 10s duration. Now, how in the world could you get enough energy to continiously spam these when your team is under constant pressure? At least give them a skill for whenever any of your team mates are hurt, you receive a very small portion of energy. Either do this or give them 3 or 4 energy pips. The ranger gets 3 because they have an attribute called Expertise which can allow them to cut down on the energy consumption by over 60%. And anything they do costs energy, usually. Every other class has 4 energy (excluding warrior, as stated previously). So I would like to see a change in either the energy pips, or a form of a skill.

My fail meter is off the charts. Here's a subtle hint: Leadership! There's a reason paras are used to power out high energy secondary prof skills like deep freeze.

The HB paragraph is pure fail as well. "I can't micro manage heroes in hero battles, nerf plzkthnx!"

wpallen · Jan 29, 2008, 10:29 PM // 22:29

This sounds like a rant at why you can't win at anything PvP. My advice to you on the HA thing is to get into a guild that can show you how to properly run whatever Team Build you want to run. From there the responsibility rests with you to learn the meta-game.

The Meth · Jan 29, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

1. LoL. LoL again. Paragons have had what is arguably the best energy management in the game since they were created. Seriously, if paragons had negative energy regeneration they could still do well with leadership at its current state.

2. The only idea in this paragraph that doesn't outright fail is the idea about having a straight out 4v4 fight for at least one map with no shrines, but HB's are a failure of a pvp arena anyway so don't count on it.

3. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I do believe that the word 'random' means to ignore anything about the players when grouping them. If not i'll feel real stupid since thats what I have always thought it meant.

4. Dear Anet, IWAY is too hard of a build for me to run, please nerf the other players.

ManiSan · Jan 29, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

about 3...
The scene takes place during last week end, during special event.
We had 9 victories. Then show up a team of 3 monks, and an ele. 3 of them resigned, but one didnt, then they started to heal each other ."because one didnt resigned" said one of the monk in pm, while i was telling him that it has been very sad to do that (I pmed him during game to beg him to stop heal, he was aware that we had 9 victories).
Draw. With 2 gmd dealers, a monk and me (as Rit support with 4 attack skills) we havent be able to kill one (very close, we had a chance but I was pming the monk at this moment!).
They didnt earned anything, of course. Actually they lost their time. Did they enjoyed to annoy us ? 3 on 3 (100%) of lamers... thats weird.
So, yeah, i would like to see Anet implement something to prevent such unwinnable battles to happend.

This has been asked many times, i bet. RA can be nice to play, but its too often just waiting to have a decent team, and losing other battles without doing any effort, nor resing others (*doh* when you're resed by the last survivor of your team... He must think you can win a 1v4, even if your whole team has failed before...

). With some adjustements, RA could be much more fun.

I Phoenix I · Jan 29, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManiSan

about 3...
The scene takes place during last week end, during special event.
We had 9 victories. Then show up a team of 3 monks, and an ele. 3 of them resigned, but one didnt, then they started to heal each other ."because one didnt resigned" said one of the monk in pm, while i was telling him that it has been very sad to do that (I pmed him during game to beg him to stop heal, he was aware that we had 9 victories).
Draw. With 2 gmd dealers, a monk and me (as Rit support with 4 attack skills) we havent be able to kill one (very close, we had a chance but I was pming the monk at this moment!).
They didnt earned anything, of course. Actually they lost their time. Did they enjoyed to annoy us ? 3 on 3 (100%) of lamers... thats weird.
So, yeah, i would like to see Anet implement something to prevent such unwinnable battles to happend.

This has been asked many times, i bet. RA can be nice to play, but its too often just waiting to have a decent team, and losing other battles without doing any effort, nor resing others (*doh* when you're resed by the last survivor of your team... He must think you can win a 1v4, even if your whole team has failed before...

). With some adjustements, RA could be much more fun.

So wait, just because you have 9 wins means I should let you win? Where's the logic behind that?

It's Random Arenas for goodness sakes. If you hate it so much, go play TA. I doubt anyone runs 3 Monks in TA...

Is it really ANet's fault that your team couldn't beat 3 Monks? With the right bars and tactics, you should be able to wear out the other Monks after 5 minutes or so, especially since you don't have anyone on their team to really worry about.

pygar · Jan 29, 2008, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Random Arenas need to stay random,not knowing what you are up against or what you will have for a team are what make RA so interesting- RA is the one arena where players are more likely to bring balanced builds because of not being able to count on good team structure....and it levels the playing field for beginner players because of the random mix of players and builds. The other arenas are all "Meta-Gamed" out, and you will only see the same builds over and over cuz those are really the only builds that work well for that arena's particular conditions/metagame.

You just have to learn to take the good with the bad in RA, and if you are totally tired of teams that dont have a monk.....take the initiative and make a monk and play it in RA. (and as an aside, I dont think monks should /resign because there is another healer on the team- I've played on teams with lots of healers and lost, I have battled teams with tons of healers and won...it's all part of the luck of the draw deal and quitting a team leaving them with 3 people is all but ensuring they will lose.....please don't /resign unless your house is on fire)

HawkofStorms · Jan 29, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Phoenix I

So wait, just because you have 9 wins means I should let you win? Where's the logic behind that?

It's Random Arenas for goodness sakes. If you hate it so much, go play TA. I doubt anyone runs 3 Monks in TA...

Is it really ANet's fault that your team couldn't beat 3 Monks? With the right bars and tactics, you should be able to wear out the other Monks after 5 minutes or so, especially since you don't have anyone on their team to really worry about.

Exactly. Multiple monk teams have either two options in RA.
1) A spike (which isn't really possible with 3 other random people)
2) Or pressure them until their energy is drained. Most teams in RA fail against multiple monk teams because they try the same tactics they use again normal teams, which is to melee train one enemy at a time until everybody is dead. Which doesn't work when you have 3 monks to cast Guardian, SoA, RoF, etc on the one guy. You have to out pressure multimonk teams.

Kanyatta · Jan 30, 2008, 12:03 AM // 00:03

1. If you know how to use Leadership, Energy is never a problem with the Paragon. If you're still having issues, use a +5 Energy Spear + Shield set or something.

2. From what I think you are saying here, is that you want HB to adapt to your playing style, which I don't think is going to happen. Adapt, don't force others to because all you run is Shadow Prison.

3. Then it would have to be named "Not-so-Random Arenas" Basically, you don't necessarily have to have a monk to win, I'd have to say 75% of my glad points I have gotten without a monk in the party. I'd rather have a solid damage dealer than a bad Peace And Harmony or Amity monk or something.

4. If Randomway doesn't work for you, then don't use it, don't complain that it doesn't work. Seriously, I don't understand why you would put this in here. Yes, HA is just full of IMBA and Meta builds, but that's the way it's pretty much always been, and that's probably all it will ever be.

"ZOMGWTF! Our 8 Wammo team doesn't work! We have healing AND damage! It doesn't make any sense!"

basically, /notsigned to all